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polaris

ETS = One of the most barbaric 'cosmetic' surgeries ever!!

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Although technically not considered a real cosmetic surgery, most people go through with it for cosmetic reasons.. Me for example I did it because I was told it would cure my horribly embarrassing, agoraphobia-inducing, blushing problem. Not only did it NOT cure or even help the problem, it created a whole new set of debilitating problems as a result of the numerous adverse side effects.

I believe most of the doctors that perform this surgery KNOW that what they are doing is WRONG! However because of the almighty dollar, they continue.. I mean how else can you make several thousand dollars for about an hour's work? Think about it, there is just something very wrong about going into someone's body and cutting off a nerve (actually what it is, is a bundle of nerves- ie, the GANGLIA). In hindsight I still cannot believe I fell for this insane idea. 6 years later and I live everyday with regret that I agreed to have this barbaric surgery. Someday these ETS 'doctors' will pay, if not in this lifetime, then most certainly the next!!

Sure you might be able to find some people that claim it was a success, but MOST do not. And most of the ones that regret their decision do not speak up about it. They are in denial, just like I was the first 2-3 years or so. I wanted to believe that the side effects would eventually go away... AND that the heat I still felt on my face in social situations was just "phantom" blushing and not actually visible. WRONG!!!!!! Plus my side effects were not as stressful and aggravating the first couple of years (mainly because I figured they would slowly decrease, plus I thought it was the price I had to pay for no blushing) so if you would've asked me how the surgery turned out I might have said "ok". Again, alot of the people that claim it was a success just recently had it done. Ask again in about 5 years! How many of the fake ETS doctor's put testimonials up on their website from 5 year post-ops?? NONE perhaps?

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I totally agree polaris. We had no idea about the side effects of this surgery. I think alot of these testimonies from doctors are made up or taken right after surgery. I realized after surgery this was not a nerve that connected only to my hands and underarms. Hopefully one day the state boards or someone will step in and ban this surgery. I never thought America would allow a surgery like this to continue. These doctors care nothing about us only decieving the patients, avoiding a lawsuit, and making quick cash.

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i agree--but its pointless to discuss it with honeymooners or future victims..each potential victim that has asked me about ETS argues its a diff nerve--or the Dr is unskilled, or im bitchy--mardy--irritable, tetchy--etc. im tired of it all and really want to blow my brains out.Pointless i know, but ive simply had enough crap. :evil:

ive given up trying to be heard

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for facial blushing, i can understand how one might consider ETS "cosmetic"(although I disagree). However, HH has medical and physical issues surrounding it and is HARDLY cosmetic.

I think it depends on what the ETS is done for. My surgeon made it very clear to me that ETS should be indicated for HH on the hands ONLY and positive results are far less likely when using ETS to treat any other HH or condition.

Also, the majority of people that do have an ETS done for their palmer HH consider themselves cured, therefore are unlikley to come back to an HH message board. Far more people are likely to spread the word about a bad experience as opposed to a good experience.

It's mostly the people who are unsatisfied that would seek out an ETS/reversal message board to tell their story.

The bottom line is, just because something didn't work out for you, doesn't mean it's not going to work for everyone else. For man people with severe HH ETS is litereally a livesaver. I'm sorry it did not give you the results you had hoped, and those complications were made very clear to me before I had ETS. For ME, it was a risk I was willing to take and I certainly would not discourage anyone else with debilitating palmer HH to research the facts (both sides) and make a decision about the option based on what's good for THEM.

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Also, I believe that the risk profile is quite different between FB and HH. The FB patients run a much higher risk of developing severe hormonal imbalances than the HH guys.

Honestly, I can see why HH sufferers have this surgery. Its a gamble, but one I dont blame anyone for making. The FB guys though should forget about it imo.

BB

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problem is..same old arguement,...

there is a Honey-moon period for many (note---i said MANY--not all, dont jump my a@@) of us....and many have ignored that.

many are post ETS in honeymoon--and all is well during that time. same ol story--same ol song and dance.

yes im an idiot-and a loser--whatever u think i should be,

rest assured in the end....rest assured

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I wouldnt feel so bad about the situation if they would just tell the truth, then i could have made a rational decison to have these nerves cut. I didnt know what nerves he was really cutting. I get fatigued quick, heart races, dizzy spells, and several other major problems. It would have been nice if the surgeon just said; hey these nerves are connected to your heart and lungs also.. Do you like to jog are workout? NO all he told me is we are going to stop those sweaty hands and underarms, like no big deal. I hope you others who had ETS are still happy down the road, but im telling you it plays on your body down the road when your nervous sytem is messed up. The good Lord put those nerves in your body for a reason, not to be cut on when you think its not acting right. All these ETS surgeons say the problem is an overactive sympathetic nervous system is a lie. The brain controls how much you sweat, not vice versa. Do they not know that or is that another part of this black surgery?

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When you get ETS you are stopping a signal that goes to your brain. This is what also can cause fainting and cognitive problems in people with nerve damage like ours. You dont sweat in that specific area because your brain is not receiving any messages, which it critically needs to function properly for other organs also. Im sorry there is no such thing as a overactive sympathetic nervous system. Thats just a marketing tool for more patients, thinking they have something wrong with there nervous system.

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I believe the hyper activity is actually in the Hyperthalamus. This is the area of the brain that measures blood temp, as far as I know. The result is that SNS is sent into overdrive making you blush or sweat uncontrollably to minor changes in temp.

So the idea of the over active SNS is not totally accurate.

BB

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What side effects from ETS surgery do you have?

Zero ability to sweat from the neck up!!!! NEED I SAY MORE????

Had the 'surgeon' told me that I would not be able to sweat on my head & face anymore for the rest of my godforsaken life, there is absolutely no way I would have had the procedure done. Even if it WAS a cure for blushing!

There are so many little annoyances I have to deal with EVERYDAY now because of the lack of sweat and natural 'oils' on my scalp and face, it really is slowly driving me MAD.

Also my hands and fingers are always so dry I can't stand they way they feel (i always have that fingernails-on-chalkboard chill in my spine). Especially in the winter when the air is cold and dry. Ever get super glue accidently on the tip of your finger? Thats how the tips of my fingers feel all the time. I constantly have to put moisturizer on them. And then low & behold, when my eyes get really dry (as they do now all the time) I go to rub my eyes and wholla, I get that nice burning feeling of hand moisturizer in my eyes. Also because I have to put moisturizer on my face daily, it also seeps into my eyes throughout the day. O yes gotta LOVE that BURN!!!!!

Want more side effects?? Strange problems with my heart now. Feels like some kind of a sharp stabbing pain, off and on at random. Also my whole upper chest area will have that same kind of pain from time to time. Some people think that it might be the nerve endings going haywire, wondering where the hell is the other connection to the nerve. Too bad they've been cut AND cauterized, NEVER to return!! WEIRD man weird problems that I have!!!!

Also I get cold now real easily. I'm talking like bizarre cold chills, even in air conditioning. Ironically I also get hot just as easy! What an insane feeling to be out in the 95 degree weather with the sun beaming down on you and not a drop of sweat on your face. Yet buckets of sweat dripping off my stomach and legs! UNREAL. UNBELIEVABLE still after all these years.

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I think it depends on what the ETS is done for. My surgeon made it very clear to me that ETS should be indicated for HH on the hands ONLY and positive results are far less likely when using ETS to treat any other HH or condition.

Also, the majority of people that do have an ETS done for their palmer HH consider themselves cured

WRONG! Where are you getting this info?? From an ETS "doctor" ??? Are YOU perhaps an ETS "doctor"?

From years and years of talking to other post-ops and researching web sites and message forums, it appears that whether you had it for facial blushing or excessive hand sweat it didn't matter. It also didn't matter what ETS "doctor" performed the surgery. MOST regretted their decision. And MOST are dealing with horrible, adverse side effects. I even knew of one person that commited suicide a few years ago, because the poor guy couldn't handle the compensatory sweating he suffered from daily. He would soak through his clothes in sweat from the neck down. He even tried to get a 'reversal' by having another EVIL fake ETS "doctor" to cut out nerves from his ankles and then try to implant them into the area in his chest where the sympathetic nerves were cut. Newsflash! It didn't work!!!!!!!!

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Also, the majority of people that do have an ETS done for their palmer HH consider themselves cured, therefore are unlikley to come back to an HH message board.

The "MAJORITY" ??????? Were these people asked about how they felt about it 48 hours after the surgery? Hows about 7 days after? OR what about 7 years??? How do you know the hit count of ETS discussion boards? I read these things for a long time before I decided to post. I bet alot of people never post, they just lurk and read....

Far more people are likely to spread the word about a bad experience as opposed to a good experience.

I don't think so! There are many MANY people that are embarrassed that they even had the surgery, and if they are dealing with bad side effects they are likely to try and ignore them. I was one of those people. And the ones who have regretted having ETS are just as likely to not post in a message board as the one's that 'think' it was a success. We are creatures of denial. We want to think of good thoughts and not believe that bad things can happen to us- it always happen to other people, not me.... right?????

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When you cut those critical nerves, many things will get screwed up in your body. No way around it. It may take years to see the full outcome. Its not some sensory nerve in the body. You would think this would have been banned a long time ago. Remember what ETS surgeons call success; Did it stop the sweating? Well yeah along with everything else, including my health. And what is really bad these ETS surgeons have performed this operation on children because their palms are sweaty. :( Think of how whacked it could make someones body before they even go thru puberty.

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WRONG! Where are you getting this info?? From an ETS "doctor" ??? Are YOU perhaps an ETS "doctor"?

whoa! no need to get so excited! I do believe there are two sides to every story. I am sorry that the surgery never worked out for you. It was still a risk I was willing to take. Just be happy for me and if things don't work out for me in the long run, then there's nothing I can do about it, it was worth the chances than having to live with HH. I just try to remain positive and optimistic. You should too!

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I think I'm not going to even consider the surgery after reading your comments. I knew about the compensatory sweating in other parts of the body, but always read that it went away and it was not bad. I think you're right, most doctors put on their websites, people's comments just after they have ETS, not years later. And why do some doctors cut and others clamp? What is the reasoning behind this? I always worry that I'll be the one person that will have crazy side effects and that's what keeps me from doing it.

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Check out this post by illuminati1979 he had ETS with the BEST Dr. He also had it at the T3/T4 level, (which is supposed to reduce CS) and he has to take Xanax in the summer to control his CS. He lives in Mass. and I live in New Jerseywhere it's even hotter. Think how much of a pain in the butt it would be to take a benzo to control sweating, during a speech or when its crazy hot. (May-Oct). Another scenario would be going to a bar or dance club and dancing and soaking thru your clothes! Holy Cow.... I mean when you dance hard it's normal to sweat from your head, a dripping torso would be kinda weird.

http://p069.ezboard.com/fetsandreversalsfrm11.showNextMessage?topicID=705.topic

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killjoycarrie:

GOOD for you, consider yourself one of the lucky ones for having found a post like this before going thru with ETS. Please PLEASE do NOT ever have this surgery, it is not worth the unpredictable side effects you will surely suffer from the rest of your life (barring a cure someday). I can't even believe that this surgery is still being allowed in the USA with it's litigious society and all.....Why hasn't one of these ETS doctors been sued yet for every penny they have, as well as the hospital where they do their bidding I'll never understand... McDonalds gets sued for millions of dollars because some old lady spilled hot coffee on herself, yet ETS continuously ruins people's health year after year, and 'they' get away with it! WTF?!?!?

by the way also check out www.ets-talk.com for more REAL testimonials...

I think you should consider the opposite side before saying things like that. There are patients who feel ETS is a better trade-off than living with sweaty hands. For me, I can't do anything anymore because my hands would literally drip. I rather have it shift over elsewhere so I can at least work (eg. writing; using electronics; swaping computer parts; shake hands). I hear most complaints by people who had ETS done for facial blushing; if that was your case, most doctors don't recommend it for that. I will be having surgery soon. None of the other treatments were effective enough. I will be sure to post my outcome.

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I don't mean to be rude, but if you are stupid enough to go through with the surgery after having read REAL testimonials from real ETS post ops (from sites like this, and ets-talk.com) who had the surgery for either blushing OR hand sweat, then you DESERVE any bad side effects you will most certainly have. This is not meant as an insult, however I'm just trying to convey some tough love for you my friend...

And do you actually speak from experience? Or do just read things from anti-ETS reversal sites (ets-talk.com being one of them)? Talk about thinking one-sided.

Where are these patients? Did the ETS doctor give you their contact info? How long ago did they have the surgery? Most post-ops' side effects don't really start to sink in till years later, then it's FOREVER!!!

Uh, hello?? Did you not read the post right above your first post by ETSsuccess? I'm sure most positive ETS patients just move on with their life, but there are a few like her, who come back and share their positive experience. Of course there's going to be bunch of negative stories on anti-ETS forum -- and of course they're the ones who return to rant about it; that's what it is.

As MOST people have ETS for hand sweat, not facial blushing.

I'm saying people who have complications with ETS are facial blushing patients (ie; the original poster of this thread, polaris). I never said most people have ETS for facial blushing.

but with hand sweat, people think the last resort is surgery- even though there are MANY other alternative treatments.

Surgery is the last resort. Define "MANY"? The treatments out there are not effective nor convenient enough.

Just remember if you have ETS- They will cut off the nerves that cause excessive sweat in your hands. If you have any brains you will realize that this sweat will get displaced into some other part of your body!!! IT DOES NOT GET ELIMINATED!! It gets RE-ROUTED!!

Yes, we already know that, and the doctor even mentions about compensatory sweating. Did you not read it would be worth the trade-off, for me, since everything I need to do involves the hands?

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Guest Anonymous
What's good for someone isn't good for everyone. ETS has made a lot of people very happy. People like to talk about their bad experiences more than their good ones.

ETS HAS MADE ALOT OF PEOPLE VERY HAPPY?? WHAT FORUM ARE YOU READING THIS FROM? HOW LONG AGO DID THEY HAVE THE SURGERY WHEN THEY STATED THEY WERE "HAPPY"? ONE MONTH? ONE YEAR? I WASN'T EXACTLY HAPPY MY FIRST FEW YEARS, BUT I WAS CONTENT WITH THE RESULTS. AND I CERTAINLY WASN'T ANGRY LIKE I AM NOW. IT TOOK JUST OVER 3 YEARS FOR THE SIDE EFFECTS TO REALLY START TO EFFECT ME, PHYSICALLY AND EMTIONALLY

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No offense kosmik, but you could have used anger management more than the surgery. From the way you write, I can see I'm getting an expert opinion; by the way, that was called sarcasm.

YES I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE!!!!!!! WHY THE f*** WOULD I COME TO SITES LIKE THIS IF I WASN'T A POST-OP??????? WHICH BY THE WAY I DID NOT DO TILL 3 YEARS AFTER MY SURGERY, WHEN I REALIZED THE SIDE EFFECTS WEREN'T GOING AWAY!!!

Hmm, doesn't that sound ironic? Exactly; only the people like you who aren't happy with it come back here. 3 years and you finally come back to report it? Did I miss something?

I'm sure people who had ETS, for facial surgery ONLY, would complain of CS because they never had to experience excessive sweating; however, for people with sweaty hands, it's much better having it shift over.

SINCE YOU LIKE TO DEFEND ETS SO MUCH, GO AHEAD AND HAVE ETS YOU DAMN FOOL!!!! I HOPE YOU SUFFER FROM ALL THE SAME SIDE EFFECTS FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE THAT I HAVE TO PUT UP WITH!!!! THERE IS ALWAYS THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE IN ANYTHING. AND THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE HERE IS SOMEONE ACTUALLY 'NOT' REGRETTING HAVING THE SURGERY.

I am going to have the surgery. Instead of just bitching about it, why don't you explain in detail what problems you are having. Just saying "ETS ruined my life" doesn't explain anything.

BY THE WAY, ETS-TALK.COM IS NOT AN ANTI-ETS FORUM, IT'S CALLED "ETS-TALK" NOT "ANTI-ETS-TALK". YET IT'S FILLED WITH 'REAL' TESTIMONIALS, NOT 'SELECTED' ONES THAT DOCTORS HAVE ON THEIR WEBSITES, BROCHURES, ETC. HUMM I WONDER WHY 90%+ OF THE REAL TESTIMONIALS ARE NEGATIVE????

Um, ETS And Reversals Discussion Forum -- duh. Of course it is biased.

THE ALTERNATIVES ARE THERE, GO FIND THEM FOR YOURSELF!! THERE ARE PLENTY OF ORAL AND TOPICAL ALTERNATIVES. I'M NOT HERE TO FIND THESE FOR YOU, I DON'T GIVE A DAMM. MY HANDS ARE NOW SO PERMANANTLY DRY BECAUSE OF ETS THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A LAYER OF DEAD SKIN COVERING THEM. AND IN THE WINTER IT'S BRUTAL!!!! IF YOU'RE TOO LAZY TOO FIND OUT OTHER TREATMENTS AND DON'T GIVE A sh** ABOUT YOUR HEALTH THEN JUST GO AHEAD AND HAVE THE SURGERY, JUST DO IT!!!!!

Wow, thanks for listing the "many" alternatives. :roll: You think I haven't tried and wasted a bunch of money on other alternatives? Let me rephrase this for you again: for severe hyperhidrosis, none of the other alternatives are effective nor convenient.

TAKE SOME TIME AND READ OTHER'S "REAL" TESTIMONIALS. WHY DO YOU THINK THE DOCTORS DOWNPLAY THE SIDE EFFECTS, SUCH AS COMPENSATORY SWEATING? CLUE: BECAUSE THEY WANT YOU TO HAVE THE FRIGGIN SURGERY SO THEY CAN MAKE MORE MONEY$$$$$$ !!!!!!!!!!!! DO YOU THINK SOMEONE SELLING YOU A USED CAR IS GOING TO TELL YOU EVERYTHING THAT'S WRONG WITH IT??????

Oh yeah, and whoever says anything positive about the surgery are FAKE. Yeah, that must be it. :roll:

LIKE I MENTIONED, GO AHEAD AND HAVE THE SURGERY. FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF WHAT KIND OF COMPENSATORY SWEATING YOU WILL HAVE (FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE- THERE IS NO REVERSAL). GO AHEAD AND FIND OUT HOW DRY YOUR HANDS, FACIAL SKIN, SCALP WILL BE FOREVER. GO AHEAD AND FIND OUT WHAT KIND OF WEIRD PHYSICAL PROBLEMS YOU WILL HAVE IN YOUR CHEST AND HEART 4, 5, 6, YEARS LATER. DON'T DELAY, DO IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!

Uhh ok. That's actually what I want.

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Guest Anonymous
No offense kosmik, but you could have used anger management more than the surgery. From the way you write, I can see I'm getting an expert opinion; by the way, that was called sarcasm

YOU DUMBASS, THE ONLY ANGER MANAGEMENT I NEED IS AN ETS-"REVERSAL". WHICH, UNFORTUNATELY DOESN'T EXIST!!! AND BY THE WAY MY ANGER IS JUSTIFIED WHEN I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THINGS TO IDIOTS LIKE YOU. YOU'RE LIKE A TERRORIST, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND LOGIC AND REASON.

Hmm, doesn't that sound ironic? Exactly; only the people like you who aren't happy with it come back here. 3 years and you finally come back to report it? Did I miss something?

I'm sure people who had ETS, for facial surgery ONLY, would complain of CS because they never had to experience excessive sweating; however, for people with sweaty hands, it's much better having it shift over.

WHAT SOUNDS IRONIC? DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT 'IRONIC' MEANS?? YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU'RE JUST A fu***** PLAIN OLD IDIOT!!! YOU SOUND AS OBTUSE AND ARROGANT AS MY ETS SURGEON, AND FROM THE WAY YOU KEEP DEFENDING ETS, YOU JUST MIGHT BE ONE OF THOSE BASTARDS!!!

MOST PEOPLE SUFFER IN SILENCE FROM THEIR BAD ETS SIDE EFFECTS. THEY DON'T POST IN FORUMS LIKE THIS, THEY PROBABLY READ THEM BUT DON'T POST. AND THE ONE'S THAT DO, MOSTLY HAVE ONLY NEGATIVE THINGS TO SAY. IF THERE WERE SO MANY PEOPLE SATISFIED (AS YOU CHOOSE TO BELIEVE) WHY AREN'T THERE MORE PEOPLE COUNTER ARGUING THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS?? BECAUSE THEY'RE MOVING ON WITH THEIR LIVES? YEARS LATER THEY'RE NOT CURIOUS TO FIND OUT OTHER'S EXPERIENCES?

BY THE WAY I HAD ETS FOR HAND SWEAT YOU fu***** sh**-FOR-BRAINS. AND WHAT THE HELL IS "FACIAL SURGERY" ANYWAYS ??? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?? IS THAT WHAT YOUR UGLY ASS NEEDS?

I am going to have the surgery. Instead of just bitching about it, why don't you explain in detail what problems you are having. Just saying "ETS ruined my life" doesn't explain anything.

GOOD, GO AHEAD AND HAVE THE SURGERY. PLAY RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH YOUR HEALTH. JUST DO IT!!! YOU DESERVE WHATEVER ADVERSE EFFECTS COMING TO YOU.

WANT TO KNOW SOME PROBLEMS I'VE HAD SINCE ETS?

-CONSTANT HEADACHES, SOMETIMES SO SEVERE I'M BED RIDDEN FOR THE DAY

-STRANGE COUGHING FITS, THAT CAN LAST FOR AN ENTIRE MONTH

-ENDLESS BOUTS OF ACNE ON MY FACE, A RESULT OF THE IRRITATION CAUSED IT'S BONE DRY SKIN

-NO ABILITY TO SWEAT FROM THE NECK UP, WHICH CAUSES DEAD SKIN FLAKES TO CONSTANTLY SHED FROM MY FACE AND SCALP; INCREDIBLE SOCIAL EMBARRASSMENT

-SORE BUMPS ON MY SCALP

-SMALL RED BUMPS ALL OVER MY BACK THAT APPEAR AND DISAPPEAR FOR NO REASON

-EXCESSIVE SWEATING ON MY STOMACH & MOST OF LOWER BODY WHILE IN THE HEAT (YET MY HEAD STAYS 100% DRY)

-CHEST PAINS ORIGINATING DIRECTLY FROM THE 2 AREAS WHERE MY NERVES WERE SEVERED

-TROUBLE BREATHING FREELY, NOSE CONGESTION

IS THAT ENOUGH FOR YOU?????????????????

Um, ETS And Reversals Discussion Forum -- duh. Of course it is biased.

BEFORE THIS FORUM 'ESFBCHANNEL.COM' GOT WIPED OUT AND ALL THE OLD POSTS DELETED, I BELIEVE IT WAS AROUND A YEAR AGO (HUMM I WONDER WHY) IT WAS LITERALLY FILLED WITH ANTI-ETS COMMENTS. WHY?? AND WHERE DID THEY ALL GO??? ETS-TALK.COM WASN'T SETUP AS AN ANTI-ETS FORUM, WHAT, YOU THINK BECAUSE OF THE WORD "REVERSALS" IT MEANS THAT? DO YOU NEED GLASSES? DID YOU SEE ALL THE CATEGORIES THERE?? STUPID!!

Wow, thanks for listing the "many" alternatives. You think I haven't tried and wasted a bunch of money on other alternatives? Let me rephrase this for you again: for severe hyperhidrosis, none of the other alternatives are effective nor convenient

IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM TO FIND ALTERNATIVES FOR YOU, LAZY A S S. YOU'RE NOT LOOKING IN THE RIGHT PLACES, IF YOU CAN'T FIND SOMETHING THAT HELPS. NOTHING IS GOING TO BE 100% EFFECTIVE ANYWAYS, AND IF YOU THINK ETS IS, THEN GO FOR IT. YOU STATE NONE OF THE ALTERNATIVES ARE 'EFFECTIVE' OR 'CONVENIENT'. WELL YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE HOW INCONVENIENT YOUR LIFE WILL BE AFTER ETS.

Oh yeah, and whoever says anything positive about the surgery are FAKE. Yeah, that must be it.

THATS BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN PROVEN BEFORE IN THE PAST. AND THE 'REAL' TESTIMONIALS THAT ARE POSITIVE TEND TO BE FROM PATIENTS THAT PRACTICALLY JUST GOT OFF THE DAMN OPERATING TABLE, OR MAYBE DAYS, WEEKS, OR MONTHS LATER. LIKE I ALREADY MENTIONED, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED A SOMEWHAT 'SATISFIED' PATIENT UP UNTIL 3 YEARS AFTER. NOW THERE IS NO TRACE OF POSITIVITY I HAVE ABOUT THE SURGERY, ONLY REGRET.

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