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just arrived at this forum. im 35 years old, Scandinavian. Been suffering from FB and sweating on the hands since I was around 12-13 years old. I had the ETS operation done in Sweden when I was 18 years old, and for me it helped perfectly with the sweating on the hands and it reduced my FB, but didnt solved it. A side effect for me was compensatory sweating in the armpits and stomach area, more sensitive to strong food, sweating non stop if its hot(more than 25 degrees). Some years after I had a surgery in my armpits because I couldnt wear a t shirt without having big sweatmarks under my arms. That moved the compensatory sweat from the arms to my feet, still annoying but more easy to coope with though. What the sugery also did for me was it reduced the way I bluse, now its only on my cheeks and not that severe. Before surgery it was crazy red and ears as well.

I have been taking Propranolol Retard 80 mg for 3-4 years. 1 pill a day. It worked for me pefectly for 1-2 years, totally removed my FB. Crazy time of my life suddenly to be able to be the person I wanted to be after so many years with FB - unreal. But after 1-2 years the effect faded. I dont know why, maybe the pill changed (even though my doctor told me its all the same), or maybe the effect just wore off.

After that I tried mirvaso and soolantra with absolutely no effect at all for the FB. Then I started to combine the propranolol with SSRI sertraline, and I have been taking that for 2-3 mounts. Im not satisfied with the effect it has on me, and Im up to a 100 mg now.

My next plan is to try out Atenolol combined with efexor (thanks blushingman for your work and dedication). Im also thinking about trying the laser show with I2PL laser for FB, and I have been asking my doctor about the possibilities with medical tattooing, because I think the technologi is getting so much better, that that maybe could be a solution in the time coming. Permanent makeup. Anyone knows anything about that possibility?? My doctor was not a fan of that idea, though he normally goes with whatever I suggest. He was the first and only person I ever told about my FB, felt strange to say it out loud:-)     

I have read all the posts on this thread, and I must say Blushingman you inspire me. Im not gonna talk about what this condition has done to my life, my upbringing, my mindset ect, because its already been said by all you people. Its just nice to read that you are not alone and other people are going through the same sh** as you are. And for me it means the world that these sites exist, and it gives me hope for the future, and thats of most importance. I have tried to lose hope, and thats not a fun place to be for too long. 

Take care

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Thank you for your comments, misterthomas :) 

Regarding medical tattooing/micropigmentation/permanent makeup I have been thinking about that as well, and I have previously contacted the Basma Hameed Clinic. It is my understanding this is the best clinic in the world, and you can see a great presentation of the founder her: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAINrzTddA0&t=1s. Unfortunately I was told by the clinic that they are not able to treat KPRF as they have tried it before and saw no improvement in camouflaging the area. Perhaps it works for people who only have chronic blushing, and not constant redness as well? I guess they should be able to answer that if you contact them. 

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Thank you for your comments, misterthomas :) 

Regarding medical tattooing/micropigmentation/permanent makeup I have been thinking about that as well, and I have previously contacted the Basma Hameed Clinic. It is my understanding this is the best clinic in the world, and you can see a great presentation of the founder her: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAINrzTddA0&t=1s. Unfortunately I was told by the clinic that they are not able to treat KPRF as they have tried it before and saw no improvement in camouflaging the area. Perhaps it works for people who only have chronic blushing, and not constant redness as well? I guess they should be able to answer that if you contact them. 

I will try to look into this first thing next week. Thanks:-) Has anyone tried Xanax/benzodiazepine for FB? the plan is to maybe use them sometimes in special stressed situations, because they are somewhat addictive and not for long term use.

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Just want to say thank you to everyone for trying AND telling your stories, happy Im not alone living with kprf. I shelter up and spend most of my time playing video games online and trying to forget about this condition. I do have a life still but far from optimal and sometimes its just easier to shelter up. 

Anyone of you manage to make any girlfriends or wifes despite having this obsticle in life? My redness is permanent and always visible, flushing and blushing every day thing, same symptomes as the rest of you.

I've only read forums before and never participated in any shape or form, much because I had nothing posetive to add. Recently I've realized that just sharing and letting pepole know that they are not alone is important too. Keeping forums and websites alive by just saying hey. Cheers and best of luck share any success because we all struggle a lot.

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Hello, AnotherSwed.

Sorry to hear about your condition, and thank you for sharing your story. Having constant red/pink cheeks, with the flushing and blushing that comes with it many times daily, really is bothersome (to say the least). That seems to be a hard thing to comprehend for people not having this condition; what it's like having the face turn dark red like a lobster and feeling an intense heat, many times every single day of your life, without having any control over it.

I am not going to tell you what you should do. It is your life. I can however empathize with playing video games all day and wanting to just hide and not think about it. But the consequence of that choice is going through your entire life and not having really lived, just existed and basically waiting for death. I personally think a big part of what gives a person meaning in life, and feeling truly happy and alive, is living out your fullest self. Both in terms of doing exactly what you want for yourself (to achieve, to experience, to enjoy, etc) and also in terms of growing and giving back to others (Feeling that you have left the world somewhat better than when you came, solving a problem that until now has not been solved, etc.). If I am allowed to give you some advice, it would be this:

1. Make a choice that you no longer will stand for letting this condition control your life.

2. Seek out the possible treatments available. Unfortunately both KPRF, flushing and blushing has been researched way too little, so as of this day there are no real cures. There are however treatments that greatly can reduce these conditions, if you are willing to have some side effects. As I have written before, I think the best thing available today is using a combination of small to medium dosage of a beta blocker (for the social “blushing”, like when giving a presentation) and an SSRI/SNRI (for the physical “flushing”, like when going from the outside into a hot room). The ETS/ESB-surgery is also available, if you are willing to make more of a gamble (However it does nothing for the KPRF, and it is not intended for flushing. It can reduce, or even eliminate, the blushing). Try out what you think is best, and do not give up if the first things you try do not work.

3. As you see some of the treatments working, break the old pattern of not doing what you really want. Start doing new things, and enjoy your life.

4. Do not forget what it was like living in suffering and not having a solution for it, and see how you can contribute to solving something. Perhaps even contributing to finding a cure to blushing, flushing and KPRF. I realize more and more that unless a medical company, research team, an investor or a really rich person discover that there is a huge profit in coming up with a cure for this, it is up to the people who actually has this to find a cure.

Cheers J

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Update

Hello, everyone :)  As I have discovered new information I believe to be of value, I wanted to make another update.

 

Beta Blockers

I have gathered new knowledge regarding beta blockers, and I am excited about the news! I have written about it here: 

  

SSRI/SNRI

I have tried quite a few different SSRI/SNRI the last year. From all the different once I have tried, they all did very little for stopping blushing. Also, as soon as I tried any higher dosage than the absolute minimum I started getting undesirable side effects (Mostly sexual, but also emotional). Further, chronic blushing is caused by the sympathetic nervous system being over-activated, and an SSRI/SSRI does nothing for stopping that process (Like a beta blocker does). Meaning that in theory it should not help much with blushing. Of course, if you take an extremely high dose of SSRI (or other drugs like Benzodiazepines) I am sure you blush less because you feel less in general. And if you blush, I assume you just don’t care about it. Being drugged like this is, for my part anyway, is completely out of the question.

Other people on this forum however have had good results using a moderate dosage of SSRI/SNRI, so it might be worth a try. Especially if beta blockers fail to work. Furthermore, the most positive experience for me regarding SSRI/SNRI was that they reduced the flushing. I did for instance get less warm and red during exercise, and the heat disappeared quicker. The two brands that worked the best was Paxil (Paroxetine) and Effexor (Venlafaxine), Paroxetine being the best and Venlafaxine the second best. Like I said, I had to use the lowest dosage (This gave me no negative side effects, while still providing some of the positive effects). This means 10 mg for Paroxetine and 37,5 mg for Venlafaxine. I am not sure why it works for flushing. SSRI/SNRI is given to women hitting menopause for hot flashes though, so it definitively is something about these drugs that reduces flushing.

Conclusion: I can not recommend SSRI/SNRI for blushing, based on my own experience. However, many on this forum has had great success using it, so it is worth trying (especially if you have not had success using a beta blocker). I can however recommend it for flushing. If you have both flushing and blushing, using a combination of a beta blocker and an SSRI/SNRI is totally fine.

 

Other thoughts

Looking back on all of this, I am totally disgusted of the time and money spent on things that does not work, like cognitive behavioral therapy and hypnotherapy. And not necessarily because I did these things, but because I allowed the idea of this being a mental/ psychological problem to be something that could be true. Everyone who has this knows this has nothing to do with psychology. This is a physical problem, and has to do with how we are biologically built. It has to do with our nervous system + skin/blood capillaries, which creates unnatural heat and redness of the skin. I also knew this when I first started seeking for solutions. But when you are young, feeling like you are alone with the problem, reading that the available treatments results in severe side effects, and being told by your family doctor that this can be cured using therapy, after a while you start to believe it (Basically as a survival mechanism, since there seems to be no other choice).

I would just like to point out: I am not in any way against therapy. In fact, at one point in my life I needed it myself, because it became too overwhelming having to live with this skin condition. But the thing is; no matter how many hours you spend with a psychiatrist or a coach, it does not stop chronic blushing. Talking does not change a physical condition – a person’s genetics! Off course, it is very easy to accumulate a psychological problem FROM living with chronic blushing. But that is not specifically tied to chronic blushing, but can happen to everyone being forced to live with a physical condition that drastically decreases that person’s life. Humans basically get triggered by pain and pleasure (Simplified off course. Also “pain” can mean shame, suffering, degradation, etc. and “pleasure” can mean love, happiness, confidence, etc.). When you every day are forced to live with a physical condition that causes mental pain, when you can not be yourself, and also feeling there is nothing you can do to change this, that is when it is very easy to get in to depression. And when that physical condition gets triggered in social situations (aka: feeling pain in social situations), pretty soon a person is not going to want to be social, and withdraw from these situations (aka: accumulate social anxiety).

Note: The only time therapy can work for stopping blushing is if you for some reason had social anxiety and then started blushing in social situations. But that is not a chronic blushing problem, but a social anxiety problem, with a physical component that just happened to be blushing. And if the social anxiety problem got fixed, then the blushing would stop as well. This certainly is not the case for me, as I loved being social before the chronic blushing became severe, and I presume that this isn’t the case for 95% of the people on this forum either.

Chronic blushing really is a misunderstood problem, and there probably are several reasons for that. It starts with this being researched way too little. With that follows both little knowledge and few available solutions. Therefor it probably is explained to a small degree in medical school, which creates doctors not aware of this condition. When a patient then explains that they struggle with blushing, the doctor may compare it to their own experiences with blushing. This off course is not the same as chronic blushing. A chronic blusher experience blushing every day, in ordinary situations, and the blushing is much more intense (Both the heat and the redness). The doctor most likely does not have this condition, and, unless they have heard about chronic blushing, they therefor probably will compare it to their own experiences with blushing (Which is something that happens occasionally, on times they are really embarrassed, and that is of course completely normal). When that is the reference point they are using to decide what should be done, it is easy to understand why they often reach the conclusion that something must be wrong with the patient’s mental state. But off course, then they have not understood what this condition is about. It would be nice if the doctors who are skeptical of this, and think this is a mental condition, somehow could have their physiology changed to having chronic blushing as well. Meaning, when they talked to patients they would go beet red, feeling the heat of the face and seeing their patient starting to wonder if they actually are confident in their answer. Having the same thing happening in normal everyday conversations during lunch with colleagues, when presenting something at a public meeting, and so on. Also, not having any control over it, since the condition gets triggered by the sympathetic nervous system, and that by definition is something you have no conscious control over. You can bet they no longer would view this as a mental problem, and they would without a doubt start seeking for solutions to put an end to this themselves.  I mean, even the most self-confident person on earth, if they suddenly somehow had to live with this skin condition, would at the very least find it extremely bothersome.

This skin- and nerve condition really is researched way too little. One of the reasons why could be that this condition is not physically life threatening. And a problem with today’s medical practice is the high valuation of survival, and the small valuation of increasing peoples’ quality of life. Let’s say someone is born without legs. How is the right way for the medical field to handle this, when the patient seeks treatment? Say that it is nothing they can do about it? That the person simply is born this way, and can survive fine with this situation? Therefor he/she should not complain or seek treatment, but use cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) to learn to accept this condition? Or is the right response from the medical field to recognize that solving this problem would drastically improve that person’s quality of life? Therefor use the treatments available to solve it to the best of their ability (Like using the newest prostheses), while also trying to figure out why this happened in the first place, so that better treatments and real cures can be created (Like using gene technology before a baby is born, so that the baby can be born with real legs in the first place)? If you ask me, the right way definitely is the second approach. And then you can just trade in the words “no legs” with "chronic blushing", "Rosacea" or "KPRF". The right approach for the medical field should be to provide the patient with the best solutions available today (Medication or surgery), while researching this thoroughly and coming up with an actual cure (Like using gene technology, or other methods, to prevent people from having to have increased redness and heat of the skin). Note: I am not trying to give equal status to chronic blushing and having no legs. I am just trying to make a point, showing that physical conditions that is not life threatening still should be researched and cured, as it will drastically improve that human’s quality of life.  

Another problem is that some doctors have a truly narrow view of their field, which results in them being arrogant and naive in their approach. Thinking that because they went to medical school they know everything there is to know about medicine. Since chronic blushing is little researched, it is much easier to just write this off as being a mental problem, instead of trying to understand more about it, and take responsibility for treating it. Why some doctors take this approach is beyond me. Then they do not realize that they have the knowledge they have today, thanks to all the people that came before them and did research. Just think of how the knowledge and procedures are very different today than just a hundred years ago. But still there is a LOT we do not know about human physiology, that need research and curing (Chronic blushing being one of these things)! The right way should be to continue researching, not settle and be satisfied with just knowing what we do today. Just like the knowledge and procedures were very different a hundred years ago, so will they be a hundred years from now. Doctors who do not recognize this, and believe they know everything or are not willing to recognize problems that until now is little researched, simply are extremely arrogant. 

My goal now is to find the best beta blocker that needs to be taken 1-2 a day, which eliminates blushing, that gives me the least side effects. Make it to a habit of just take a beta blocker every day, and then not having to think about the problem for the entire day. If this for some reason should not work out, I will have the ETS-surgery done (Unless a new better solution appears before that off course). I have recently just started trying out a long lasting beta blocker, and I could go without blushing for the better part of a day. Had a job interview and could focus on the actual conversation, as there were no blushing. For someone without this condition this of course is not a big deal (It is as it should be for everyone). As a chronic blusher however you know that it is, as a job interview is a guaranteed trigger for the chronic blushing. I must say after experiencing what is what like being blush free for a big part of the day, I support the hypothesis of why there are so few success stories of ETS online. If the blushing disappears and you do not get severe side effects, you also do not seek out blushing forums (Unless you already knew about a forum, and wanted to share your positive experience), you just get on and enjoy your life. I have already done more things now that I want to do, which I previously avoided (As they were guaranteed blushing scenarios, which becomes humiliating putting one’s self through too often). However, if the surgery is as good for the rest of your life as it was for me a part of the day when using a beta blocker, suddenly you can just be yourself. Meaning, as soon as you realize that it worked for any situations, any problems that came from this (like social anxiety) would seize to exist immediately. As I now have experienced for a period of the day what it was like not going beet red and extremely warm in the face from everyday, normal situations, it is unacceptable to go back to anything else. The only thing stopping me now from not thinking about blushing anymore, is that I have not found a sufficient beta blocker. I need it to last for about 20-24 hours, and finding the balance between a high enough dosage for stopping blushing, but simultaneously as low as possible so that the side effects are minimized. It’s terrible that the only options available are surgery or medication, that has severe side effects. But knowing what it was like not having to have chronic blushing, it really is worth to have some side effects (Unless the side effects becomes too bad off course). Time will tell if I find a good enough beta blocker or go through with surgery.

 

Short summation and tips:

1. Do not waste your time on things that does not work, like therapy. If you are like me, and it is a physical problem, then that is what you should do something about.

2. If this problem is affecting the quality of your life in a negative way, seek out treatments. Do not stand for this reducing the quality of your life any longer.  The longer you live with this, the easier it becomes to develop mental illnesses, like social anxiety.

3. It is not certain that your family doctor knows about this condition, and that we unfortunately can not expect either, since it is little researched and little taught in medical school. Therefore, be prepared to explain the condition. I have met doctors who did not even know the difference between flushing and blushing, let alone what chronic blushing is. A good way to explain this to them might be recommending them to read “When blushing hurts”, by doctor Enrique Jadresic, or reading his short explanation on this webpage: http://chronicblushinghelp.com/whatischronicblushing.html . This explains the problem in a good way, and also which treatments are available today. If your family doctor still does not want to help you find treatments, he/she is one of those narrow-minded doctors, who just wants to do what he/she feels is safe and have been taught up till now. I mean, if they do no want to listen to a colleague who has actually had this condition himself and done research on the matter (Dr. Enrique Jadresic), then nothing will convince them. Just find another doctor, as most doctors want to help their patients the best way they can.

 

Good luck to all, and keep posting results of your own! :) 

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53 minutes ago, blushingman said:

Update

Hello, everyone :)  As I have discovered new information I believe to be of value, I wanted to make another update.

 

Beta Blockers

I have gathered new knowledge regarding beta blockers, and I am excited about the news! I have written about it here: 

  

SSRI/SNRI

I have tried quite a few different SSRI/SNRI the last year. From all the different once I have tried, they all did very little for stopping blushing. Also, as soon as I tried any higher dosage than the absolute minimum I started getting undesirable side effects (Mostly sexual, but also emotional). Further, chronic blushing is caused by the sympathetic nervous system being over-activated, and an SSRI/SSRI does nothing for stopping that process (Like a beta blocker does). Meaning that in theory it should not help much with blushing. Of course, if you take an extremely high dose of SSRI (or other drugs like Benzodiazepines) I am sure you blush less because you feel less in general. And if you blush, I assume you just don’t care about it. Being drugged like this is, for my part anyway, is completely out of the question.

Other people on this forum however have had good results using a moderate dosage of SSRI/SNRI, so it might be worth a try. Especially if beta blockers fail to work. Furthermore, the most positive experience for me regarding SSRI/SNRI was that they reduced the flushing. I did for instance get less warm and red during exercise, and the heat disappeared quicker. The two brands that worked the best was Paxil (Paroxetine) and Effexor (Venlafaxine), Paroxetine being the best and Venlafaxine the second best. Like I said, I had to use the lowest dosage (This gave me no negative side effects, while still providing some of the positive effects). This means 10 mg for Paroxetine and 37,5 mg for Venlafaxine. I am not sure why it works for flushing. SSRI/SNRI is given to women hitting menopause for hot flashes though, so it definitively is something about these drugs that reduces flushing.

Conclusion: I can not recommend SSRI/SNRI for blushing, based on my own experience. However, many on this forum has had great success using it, so it is worth trying (especially if you have not had success using a beta blocker). I can however recommend it for flushing. If you have both flushing and blushing, using a combination of a beta blocker and an SSRI/SNRI is totally fine.

 

Other thoughts

Looking back on all of this, I am totally disgusted of the time and money spent on things that does not work, like cognitive therapy and hypnotherapy. And not necessarily because I did these things, but because I allowed the idea of this being a mental/ psychological problem to be something that could be true. Everyone who has this knows this has nothing to do with psychology. This is a physical problem, and has to do with how we are biologically built. It has to do with our nervous system + skin/blood capillaries, which creates unnatural heat and redness of the skin. I also knew this when I first started seeking for solutions. But when you are young, feeling like you are alone with the problem, reading that the available treatments results in severe side effects, and being told by your family doctor that this can be cured using therapy, after a while you start to believe it (Basically as a survival mechanism, since there seems to be no other choice).

I would just like to point out: I am not in any way against therapy. In fact, at one point in my life I needed it myself, because it became too overwhelming having to live with this skin condition. But the thing is; no matter how many hours you spend with a psychiatrist or a coach, it does not stop chronic blushing. Talking does not change a physical condition – a person’s genetics! Off course, it is very easy to accumulate a psychological problem FROM living with chronic blushing. But that is not specifically tied to chronic blushing, but can happen to everyone being forced to live with a physical condition that drastically decreases that person’s life. Humans basically get triggered by pain and pleasure (Simplified off course. Also “pain” can mean shame, suffering, degradation, etc. and “pleasure” can mean love, happiness, confidence, etc.). When you every day are forced to live with a physical condition that causes mental pain, when you can not be yourself, and also feeling there is nothing you can do to change this, that is when it is very easy to get in to depression. And when that physical condition gets triggered in social situations (aka: feeling pain in social situations), pretty soon a person is not going to want to be social, and withdraw from these situations (aka: accumulate social anxiety).

Note: The only time therapy can work for stopping blushing is if you for some reason had social anxiety and then started blushing in social situations. But that is not a chronic blushing problem, but a social anxiety problem with a physical component, that just happened to be blushing. And if the social anxiety problem got fixed, then the blushing would stop as well. This certainly is not the case for me, as I loved being social before the chronic blushing became severe, and I presume that this isn’t the case for 95% of the people on this forum either.

Chronic blushing really is a misunderstood problem, and there probably are several reasons for that. It starts with this being researched way too little. With that follows both little knowledge and few available solutions. Therefor it probably is explained to a small degree in medical school, which creates doctors not aware of this condition. When a patient then explains that they struggle with blushing, the doctor may compare it to their own experiences with blushing. This off course is not the same as chronic blushing. A chronic blusher experience blushing every day, in ordinary situations, and the blushing is much more intense (Both the heat and the redness). The doctor most likely does not have this condition, and, unless they have heard about chronic blushing, they therefor probably will compare it to their own experiences with blushing (Which is something that happens occasionally, on times they are really embarrassed, and that is of course completely normal). When that is the reference point they are using to decide what should be done, it is easy to understand why they often reach the conclusion that something must be wrong with the patient’s mental state. But off course, then they have not understood what this condition is about. It would be nice if the doctors who are skeptical of this, and think this is a mental condition, somehow could have their physiology changed to having chronic blushing as well. Meaning, when they talked to patients they would go beet red, feeling the heat of the face and seeing their patient starting to wonder if they actually are confident in their answer. Having the same thing happening in normal everyday conversations during lunch with colleagues, when presenting something at a public meeting, and so on. Also, not having any control over it, since the condition gets triggered by the sympathetic nervous system, and that by definition is something you have no conscious control over. You can bet they no longer would view this as a mental problem, and they would without a doubt start seeking for solutions to put an end to this themselves.  I mean, even the most self-confident person on earth, if they suddenly somehow had to live with this skin condition, would at the very least find it extremely bothersome.

This skin- and nerve condition really is researched way too little. One of the reasons why could be that this condition is not physically life threatening. And a problem with today’s medical practice is the high valuation of survival, and the small valuation of increasing peoples’ quality of life. Let’s say someone is born without legs. How is the right way for the medical field to handle this, when the patient seeks treatment? Say that it is nothing they can do about it? That he is born this way, and can survive fine with this situation. Therefor he should not complain or seek treatment, but use cognitive therapy to learn to accept this condition. Or is the right response from the medical field to recognize that solving this problem would drastically improve that person’s quality of life? Therefor they use the treatments available to solve it to the best of their ability (Like using the newest prostheses), while also trying to figure out why this happened in the first place, so that better treatments and real cures can be created (Like using gene technology before a baby is born, so that the baby can be born with real legs in the first place). If you ask me, the right way definitely is the second approach. And then you can just trade in the words “no legs” with "chronic blushing", "Rosacea" or "KPRF". The right approach for the medical field should be to provide the patient with the best solutions available today (Medication or surgery), while researching this thoroughly and coming up with an actual cure (Like using gene technology, or other methods, to prevent people from having to have increased redness and heat of the skin). Note: I am not trying to give equal status to chronic blushing and having no legs. I am just trying to make a point, showing that physical conditions that is not life threatening still should be researched and cured, as it will drastically improve that human’s quality of life.  

Another problem is that some doctors have a truly narrow view of their field, which results in them being arrogant and naive in their approach. Thinking that because they went to medical school they know everything there is to know about medicine. Since chronic blushing is little researched, it is much easier to just write this off as being a mental problem, instead of trying to understand more about it and take responsibility for treating it. Why some doctors take this approach is beyond me. Then they do not realize that they have the knowledge they have, thanks to all the people that came before them and did research. Just think of how the knowledge and procedures are very different today than just a hundred years ago. But still there is a LOT we do not know about human physiology, that need research and new cures (Chronic blushing being one of these things)! The right way should be to continue researching, not settle and be satisfied with just knowing what we do today.

My goal now is to find the best beta blocker that needs to be taken 1-2 a day, which eliminates blushing, that gives me the least side effects. Make it to a habit of just take a beta blocker every day, and then not having to think about the problem for the entire day. If this for some reason should not work out, I will have the ETS-surgery done (Unless a new better solution appears before that off course). I have recently just started trying out a long lasting beta blocker, and I could go without blushing for the better part of a day. Had a job interview and could focus on the actual conversation, as there were no blushing. For someone without this condition this of course is not a big deal (It is as it should be for everyone). As a chronic blusher however you know that it is, as a job interview is a guaranteed trigger for the chronic blushing. I must say after experiencing what is what like being blush free for a big part of the day, I support the hypothesis of why there are so few success stories of ETS online. If the blushing disappears and you do not get severe side effects, you also do not seek out blushing forums (Unless you already knew about a forum, and wanted to share your positive experience), you just get on and enjoy your life. I have already done more things now that I want to do, which I previously avoided (As they were guaranteed blushing scenarios, which becomes humiliating putting one’s self through too often). However, if the surgery is as good for the rest of your life as it was for me a part of the day when using a beta blocker, suddenly you can just be yourself. Meaning, as soon as you realize that it worked for any situations, any problems that came from this (like social anxiety) would seize to exist immediately. As I now have experienced for a period of the day what it was like not going beet red and extremely warm in the face from everyday, normal situations, it is unacceptable to go back to anything else. The only thing stopping me now from not thinking about blushing anymore, is that I have not found a sufficient beta blocker. I need it to last for about 20-24 hours, and finding the balance between a high enough dosage for stopping blushing, but simultaneously as low as possible so that the side effects are minimized. It’s terrible that the only options available are surgery or medication, that has severe side effects. But knowing what it was like not having to have chronic blushing, it really is worth to have some side effects (Unless the side effects becomes too bad off course). Time will tell if I find a good enough beta blocker or go through with surgery.

 

Short summation and tips:

1. Do not waste your time on things that does not work, like therapy. If you are like me, and it is a physical problem, then that is what you should do something about.

2. If this problem is affecting the quality of your life in a negative way, seek out treatments. Do not stand for this reducing the quality of your life any longer.  The longer you live with this, the easier it becomes to develop mental illnesses, like social anxiety.

3. It is not certain that your family doctor knows about this condition, and that we unfortunately can not expect either, since it is little researched and little taught in medical school. Therefore, be prepared to explain the condition. I have met doctors who did not even know the difference between flushing and blushing, let alone what chronic blushing is. A good way to explain this to them might be recommending them to read “When blushing hurts”, by doctor Enrique Jadresic, or reading his short explanation on this webpage: http://chronicblushinghelp.com/whatischronicblushing.html . This explains the problem in a good way, and also which treatments are available today. If your family doctor still does not want to help you find treatments, he/she is one of those narrow-minded doctors, who just wants to do what he/she feels is safe and have been taught up till now. I mean, if they do no want to listen to a colleague who has actually had this condition himself and done research on the matter (Dr. Enrique Jadresic), then nothing will convince them. Just find another doctor, as most doctors want to help their patients the best way they can.

 

Good luck to all, and keep posting results of your own! :) 

I'm sure I missed it great post btw but what pills are you taking? 

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You people have certainly done your research on the subject. I don't post much on here but I do visit the forum regularly as it is very interesting. What I can say from my own point of view is that all the therapy in the world could not cure my blushing. When I was in my 20's and 30's I tried most of the stuff available and it proved hopeless. Blushing violently all the time would bring a giant down to the ground. The more I blushed, the worse living life became. I used heavy drinking and gambling as "crutches". I honestly believe if I had been born with only a minute or (better still) nonexistent ability to blush frequently, my young life would have been a lot easier. The fear of blushing is a nightmare hell and when people take pleasure in pointing your red face out, it's even worse. My parents pointed it out all the time. They would ask me why I did it  ? Just makes you feel inadequate.

I agree with a previous post, in that blushing is a physical thing. It's what lots of it can lead to is the huge pitfall. Non blushers have not got the foggiest idea. I've never seen any of my doctors blush, ever.

People talk and write how they were embarrassed and how they could have "dropped through the floor". If they had the beetroot face to go with it, they'd have been in excruciating pain before they even landed in the basement.

Huge percentage of people would rather die than speak in public. That's just the ones who couldn't raise a blush if they tried. Try it struggling for words, accompanied by a purple face.

Drugs ?  Propanolol didn't work for me but Efexor does to a good degree, downside is lack of hard on's. Sex is off the agenda (understanding wife). When I was younger, if EFT had been available, I'd have been in like a shot, risks and all. I do feel the older the person, the less likely they are to blush anyway. I would echo the words given already on this page about not wasting your efforts(and money) on therapies that do not work. 

Situation that could trigger a major blushing episode maybe, is if I met someone from my past that was aware of me blushing a lot more than I do now. I say could and maybe. Not definite. I suppose I don't fear the blush as much.

Hobbies and pastimes as a diversion - My thing is music. I started playing guitar. It gets difficult at times but you are pre-occupied and thus insulated for a while. You begin to feel as though you are really achieving something other than being wonderful at blushing.

Not all doom and gloom.

Cheers

 

 

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On ‎28‎.‎01‎.‎2017 at 11:58 PM, Dave1994 said:

I have just started on some amino acid supplements and they feel like they're working. Will make a post about it

Hey, any success with those amino acids?

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On 16.9.2017 at 8:16 PM, redattack said:

Ah ok you considering ETS at all? 

Hi redattack, 

Please read my update before asking a question. I wrote that I am going to have the surgery done if beta blockers dos not work, or if a new treatment does not come, so that of course implies that I am considering the surgery. But anyway, let me give a fuller explanation, since you are asking about it.  

Yes, I am considering the surgery. I hope I do not have to go through with it, but if I have tried everything else available, and it does not work out well, then this seems to be the only thing left to do. It is sad that there are so few good treatments available. It is important to me to go through with this only as the best logical solution, and not as an act of desperation. Therefor I am taking my time, contemplating pros and cons, and trying to understand the consequence of my decision. Here are some of my thoughts on the matter:

Cons: 

    Human beings are extraordinary in that we often will do more for others, than we will for ourselves. So, I have asked the question: Would I recommend this surgery to the people I love the most, if they had the same skin- and nerve condition as myself? And the answer to that is a definite no. Even if I went through with the surgery, and I got a successful result, I still would not recommend it, knowing how huge of a gamble it is. There is something about loving yourself as much as others, and if I would not want someone I care about to go through with this, perhaps I should not do it myself. 

    On the same note as above, would I want someone I care about to take a beta blocker every day, if they had the same skin/nerve-condition as myself? And the answer to that is yes. Because I know how horrible it is living with this skin condition, with a beta blocker you can just try out different types or change the dosing, if the side effects get too severe. 

    I believe that ETS is not what will be the recommended treatment in the future. If researchers discovered a way of reducing the amount of capillaries of the face (Lasers exist, but as we know, they do not work), I do not think it will be necessary to destroy the nervous system at all. The field of medicine is starting to improve, with greater knowledge, and treatments involving stem cells and gene technology are becoming more advanced. Finding out why someone can get severe redness and heat of the face, while others do not, probably is where to focus should be, and will pave the way for an actual cure.

    The surgery does nothing for KPRF. It may not do anything for flushing, and it is not even guaranteed it will cure blushing (85 % success rate, under 50 % long term satisfaction rate). 

    Side effects are guaranteed, like drier hands and face, no sweating above nipple line (meaning also not excreting heat from the head - which is where A LOT of heat normally would excrete), extra sweating below the nipple line. And this is just some of the guaranteed side effects, and there are other worse possible side effects as well. Meaning, the surgery could actually create more problems than what it would cure.

    You do not only destroy «the blushing nerve». You destroy a part of a nervous system that serves several functions of your body. It works for blushing since you destroy «the fight and flight mechanism», but also other mechanisms that you really do not want to destroy. 

    The side effects of surgery are forever. The side effects of medication can be stopped by not taking them anymore. Meaning, you can take them until a better treatment becomes available. 

    The result of the surgery is so unpredictable. You can have one person who get minor side effects and cured of chronic blushing, while another, using the same surgeon and having similar body type, getting severe side effect and not being cured from chronic blushing.

Pros:

    The surgery is not as invasive as it was before. Before they cut a lot more T-levels, which suggests that there are fewer people now getting severe side effects.  

    There are some people who are really happy with the surgery, and the possibility is that I can be one of these people. 

    There could be a long time until there is a better cure (with less side effects) available. Perhaps a couple of years, but it could also be a couple of decades. It depends on people working on this, as well as the general progress within the field of medicine. 

    The possibility of being satisfied. Not having to do anything else (like rely on medication and doctors), but to go on with my life feeling free. 

    Beta blockers has worked the best of the medications I have tried. Given that the surgery and beta blockers has somewhat similar effects on the body, this may indicate that the surgery will work for me.  

The worst part about taking medication actually is having to rely on doctors for it. Especially since they may not have heard of chronic blushing, so you don’t know what kind of a response you might get. I mean, as I get older I probably am going to move at least a couple of times, the doctor might get retired, etc. Therefor I would have to explain the problem all over again to several new doctors, not knowing which response I might get. It just becomes humiliating and time consuming. And being and adult getting on with your life, you should not have worry about if you can live the life you want, based on if the doctor you have has heard of chronic blushing or not. Of course, most doctors will help, so if you meet a negative doctor you can just go to someone else. But not being certain that you can get the treatment you want, when you want it, is just an unnecessary and bothersome added factor. I mean, all the information about dosing, safety rules, drug interactions, side effects, etc. is available to the public, and it is the same information doctors read. If it were possible I would just buy this myself, not being bothered by a doctor. It is a strange society, that you can buy as much alcohol as you want (which is much more dangerous), but you can not buy a small dose of a beta blocker without supervision. Until it is voted that we should be able to decide over our own lives; take responsibility for our own body and not having the faith decided by regulations of the government, this is how it is. I just have to remind myself of the great comment from @Filur, that it does not make sense having the surgery done if medication works. Also, chronic blushers should not have to suffer just because they happen to have a doctor who does not know about this condition, or is interested in understanding it. If this happened to me, off course it would be really tempting having the “quick fix” of the surgery, and being done with it all. But if it does not seem like the best thing to do, it would not be right. Again, if it happens, just find an other doctor who is interested in actually helping their patients.

Conclusion: 

Having the surgery done is not something that I really want, comparing effects vs side effects. If I had it done, I would find the best surgeon, only operating on the T2-level and using clamping. It would be a calculated gamble, but a gamble nevertheless, and just hoping that I got out of it with a successful result. If beta blockers do not work out, or a new and promising treatment is not close, having the surgery is a gamble I will take. 

Hope this clarified it for you :)

 

Side note:

Hypothetically thinking; If there came no new treatments, would it be best using beta blockers or having the surgery done? This I am not sure of. The surgery does have a beta blocking effect (It reduces the heart rate). Since it also creates CS and no sweating above the nipple line, that seems to be more side effects than from beta blockers. Anyone here who has had the surgery done, who used beta blockers before? How will you compare the difference? Fatigue and making it harder to work out is a side effect from both the surgery and beta blockers, but how much of a difference is it in severity? 

 

Short update:

Got a job as a salesman. Meeting a lot of new people, both colleagues and people that I was selling to. Over 3 days, I only had two blushing episodes. The first was when I was talking to someone and realized I had done something genuinely embarrassing. The blush was minor and went away immediately. In other words, a blush that could happen to someone without this condition, and therefor normal (Therefor did not bother me). The other time it happened was when meeting someone I was not expecting to meet. This on the other hand is not a normal blushing situation (for people without this condition), and is when the chronic blushing became apparent. The blush was also a lot more intense and long lasting, but disappeared quicker than usual (Since I was using beta blockers). It could be several factors why this happened; it was late in the day so the beta blocker probably had lost much of its effect, being tired. etc.

Also, I did have side effects like tiredness and increased sweating from a beta blocker the first days of using it, but after taking it every day regularly, it was greatly reduced. 

I really cannot emphasize enough the importance of not standing for having this condition, and seeking out the best treatments for yourself (Plus of course, supporting better treatments if possible). It is a game changer finding solutions. Woke up with more energy, instead of dreading going through the entire day with this condition you can be yourself, etc. Moreover, beta blocker does nothing for changing feelings or mentality, they simply block the chronic blushing. This is just more evidence for this not being a psychological condition. And also, that it greatly can impact the quality of life and mental state of having vs not having this in your life.

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Hi Everyone,

 

This is truly a great forum. People really put in the effort here to support each other and come up with solutions to this burden. 

 

I first posted several months ago and thought it might be a good idea to provide an update. I must say that compared to the last time I wrote, my skin has definitely improved. I no longer have persistent redness and when my skin does go red, it rarely is to the same degree of aggressive redness it could get to before. 

What has worked for me so far will probably not work for everyone because it is obvious that (near) persistent redness has different causes for different people. Nevertheless, just in case it may work for someone else, I'll share my "method" here. I've gone with the idea that the redness is caused by what is probably an underlying skin disorder (KPRF or early stage rosacea - but I kind of doubt the latter because I've had this redness since I was 11 or 12 or so) and aggravated by inflammation and a broken skin barrier. As such, I've tried to find ways of "treating" these underlying potential causes and have been successful to a certain degree.

 

Skin Care

What has produced the greatest results for me is Retinol. Truly some magical stuff. I've gone from waking up with a red face 95% of the time to about 30% of the time. My face goes red when I put it on, but after a few minutes or the next morning, my face is a normal colour (although a light shade of red here and there but nothing that would stand out to anyone). 

Besides that, I also use a sunscreen with 5% niacinamide (Elta MD UV Clear SPF 46). I've worn sunscreen everyday since I was 16 and highly recommend doing so because it'll prevent fueling the redness and making it worse. What I love about this sunscreen is that 80% when I take it off, my face isn't bright red and actually a "normal" colour (ie. it looks as though my face might actually be attached to the rest of my body & not just a bright red ball on a pasty white body!). I used to hate washing my makeup and sunscreen off only to be confronted with a bright red tomato face again. 

I've also started wearing a niacinamide serum (SkinCeuticals Metacell Renewal B3) at night about half an hour after applying the retinol. After that, and mornings before putting on sunscreen, I put on a skin barrier repair cream (SkinCeuticals Triple Lipid Restore) and sometimes an additional moisturiser with calming ingredients (e.g. Aveeno Ultra Calming night cream). 

While I'm not sure about the moisturizer, the niacinamide and retinol have definitely made a difference! I would highly recommend those products. I also use other products and will list those if others are interested, but the ones I mentioned are the ones I think have truly worked to combat the redness. 

 

Dietary Supplements

Note: I'm a vegetarian and have been so for almost a decade. 

I take several supplements to combat inflammation and strengthen my skin so that it becomes more resistant. I also avoid sugar as much as possible. I take the following daily:

  • 10mg Biotin
  • 2x 500mg Vitamin C
  • 500mg Vitamin E
  • 1x vegan omega-3
  • 1x Heliocare Ultra-D 
  • in addition, a vitamin tablet for vegetarians (which I've been taking for years) and a general skin-support supplement (with Vit. C & A & E, zinc, CoQ10, & HA)

I'm currently looking into pycnogenol and glucosamine supplements as well. 

 

My skin looks a whole lot better as a whole. Some days, it even looks so good that I don't even want to wear makeup (but I do, just in case I go bright red again later). I haven't worked out a way to avoid redness while exercising, but that's not my priority. My face is still red & prone to all-over blushing without any specific triggers, but it's a lot less.

I had mentioned green-tinted or yellow-tinted concealer in my previous post. I realise that this won't work for many guys. However, if you are very pale like me, it is not so obvious, especially if you mix it with a sunscreen or with a moisturiser. Furthermore, there are tinted sunscreens. No one is going to get judgmental over a guy wearing sunscreen. 

I haven't tried SSRIs or other prescription medications (like beta blockers). What has produced results for me may not work for everyone. I've started with retinol in May and slowly started adding the other products and supplements. Before, I would dread taking off my makeup and seeing what my face looked like in the morning. Now, I feel a lot more confident. If I were to spend the night with someone, I wouldn't be running to the bathroom to slap on makeup before they would wake up. My face is still far from perfect, but I'll take what I have right now over what my face looked like half a year ago. Of course there are still days where my skin looks horrible, but these days occur less often than they did before.

I haven't managed to book a dermatologist appointment yet, but I am hoping to try out the Vbeam laser to help improve the remaining redness. I'm unsure about the efficacy because there are mixed reports; however, it does appear to be worth a shot. I might enquire about beta blockers because it does sound like a promising solution. 

I'll keep looking for more solutions and keep you guys posted.

  

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Update

Just wanted to share of some of the new things that has worked. Also, it might be interesting to hear what didn’t work out of what I have tried. 

 

What didn’t work

Zoloft (Sertraline): This did little for both blushing and flushing for me. In addition to the previous stated side effects of SSRI/SNRI, it also made me sweat a lot more. Like in social situations, I would sweat from my face, and this has never happened before (And stopped once I stopped taking this drug).

Remeron (Mirtazapine): This was without a doubt the absolute worst antidepressant I tried. I got super tired, had to sleep a lot and I got an appetite like crazy. It was horrible to be on. Can’t say I noticed any improvement in blushing or flushing either.

Note that this was my experience. Everyone is biologically different, and particularly when it comes to antidepressants, people may respond different to different types of drugs. For me, Effexor (Venlafaxine) and Paxil (Paroxetine) worked quiet well for flushing, but not much for blushing.

 

What has worked – Long lasting Beta Blockers

I have tried 3 types now: Sotalol, Nebivolol and Bisoprolol. All have worked very well, and reduced the blushing by about 85-90 %. All beta blockers I have tried have worked very well, including Atenolol and Propranolol. The main thing for me now therefor is finding the type and dosage that works for an entire day, which has the least side effects.

The 1. generation beta blockers, which blocks both beta receptors, gives the most side effects for me. Mainly fatigue/tiredness, which I do not get to a very noticeable degree from a beta blocker which only blocks the beta-1 receptors (2. and some 3. generation). I have also found that these worked just as well for stopping blushing. Sotalol (type 1) did however also reduce flushing (not in heat, but when exercising) to a great degree. But flushing during exercise is not something that I care too much about. And it’s definitely not worth getting the extra side effects from this, just to reduce flushing during exercise.  

Note: The side effects are without a doubt less for the long-acting beta blockers, than for the short acting beta blockers (Like Propranolol and Atenolol). Also, after taking the beta blockers regularly, after 3-4 days they become even less noticeable. This you should bear in mind; if you get great side effects from occasionally taking beta blockers (Like I did, like when I was going to give a presentation) you will probably not get as big side effects when you start taking a long-acting beta blocker regularly. I think it takes 3-4 days for the body to adjust, and you should take the beta blocker approximately on the same time of the day (usually the mornings) everyday.  

So, for me, I will probably use either Nebivolol or Bisoprolol, since they work great and simultaneously give the least side effects. What is not great is that the dosage that works in the beginning of the day, does not reduce the blushing for the entire day. Therefor I will have to take a larger dosage than what I actually need, so that it can work for the entire day. This is due to their half life (10-12 hours). There is one other beta-1-blocker; Betaxolol, which has a greater half-life (14-22 hours) and should therefor work for an entire day with a lower dose. It is unfortunately not common to use this in my country, so I have not been able to try this yet. Also note: This is a 3. generation beta blocker, which can cause flushing due to vasodilation. But this is just one of many side effects that is listed, and does not at all mean that you have to get it. Nebivolol also can cause vasodilation, and I did not get any added flushing from this (And it was also one of the beta blockers that both worked the best for reducing blushing and had the least side effects). Therefore, you just have to try out different types for yourself. I will update if I get a chance to try it. Another interesting long lasting beta blocker is Nadolol, but note that this is a 1. generation beta blocker (with the possibility of more side effects).  

I wonder if you can use the result you have from beta blockers, to determine which T-levels should be cut/clamped when having the ETS/ESB-surgery. I mean, the different beta blocker types blocks different receptors of the sympathetic nervous system (Same part of the nervous system that gets destroyed during the surgery). Take me for instance, I only needed to block the beta-1 receptors (Worked for blushing, and gave the least side effects). Does this correspond to a specific T-level? Or perhaps there is no correlation? I don’t know, it was just something I thought about.

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The future of curing facial redness

It is so clear to me now how this is a dermatological problem. Whether you have KPRF, Rosacea or just a skin type which shows redness easily, it is a problem of excessive and redundant facial redness/capillaries. This is why you get excessive blushing and flushing.

There is a celebrity, Neal P. McDonough, who has KPRF. Here is a picture of him when cheeks are “calm”:

mcdonough_4486.jpg

Here is a picture of him when his cheeks are flushed:

neal_mcdonough_a_p.jpg

Clearly it is something about the skin (numerous and excessive capillaries) that is abnormal. Should a person with a condition like this have to destroy their nervous system (aka: ETS-surgery)? Or should a real dermatological cure come for this, for everyone who doesn’t want to live with this skin condition?

I feel that KPRF in some way can be compared to a birthmark. It is a genetic problem, you are born with it, you have it for your entire life and you (very!) often pass it on to your children. The difference is that this “birthmark” is redness of the cheeks, and the color is not constant, but can change from light pink to dark red.

Here is a picture (source: https://www.realself.com/question/las-vegas-nv-eliminate-keratosis-pilaris-rubra-faceii-facial-redness-lumecca-ipl# )of another guy with KPRF, who barely has any redness when the cheeks are the most calm.  It greatly shows the difference between a “calm” vs  a “flushed” situation.  Calm:

 userimage-1443483.jpg

Flushed:

userimage-1443479.jpg

A name that sometimes gets mentioned when discussing the ETS surgery is Brandon Thomas, since he committed suicide because of chronic blushing. Looking at pictures of him (In a “calm” situation), it looks like he has, if not KPRF, more facial redness/capillaries than the average:

article-2172170-1405FF82000005DC-89_306x

The main problem for the sufferers of excessive facial redness is how little research that has been done on the matter, and within dermatology in general. I mean, we live in the 21st century, the doctors go through about 12 years of medical school and the best thing they are able to do after this is set up a clinic, buy a laser machine and start “zapping”! They use the same lasers whether you have Rosacea, a birthmark, KPRF or another skin condition, and it does not cure anything. At best, it reduces the skin condition a little bit. It ends with consumers not getting what they want, just being poorer.  It’s completely pathetic how little dermatologists today are able to do with such common skin problems.

Everyone should know what to expect, before giving away your hard earned cash to these skin clinics. They use marketing techniques and claim they are able to get rid of facial redness, but it is just a scam. They all use lasers, and marketing that they have “a new version” does not make a difference. Here is a great example; a video of a woman with KPRF who has had lasers done with the newest laser machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIbNWZ2WMu4 . Here the skin clinic obviously has paid the reporters and the treated woman to praise their treatment, and they show a “before and after picture” showing less redness in one of the pictures. But when the woman is being interviewed a while after she has had all the laser treatments, she is just as red as before. Nevertheless she and the reporters are praising the treatments. I am not sure if anyone here is familiar with the tail of “The Emperor's New Clothes”, but this seems to be what today’s dermatologists are aiming for. Hoping that if they get enough people to say that it works, even though it doesn’t, soon enough people will believe it too. I mean, how stupid do dermatologists think their customers are? The woman is sitting there, after all her treatments, and her cheeks are as red as ever! Do they expect the consumers to look at the picture instead, and think it works? I mean, just take the second guy (photo 3 and 4): If they showed these pictures as before-and-after-pictures, and claimed it came because of the laser treatments, it would seem lasers gave fantastic results! But this guy hasn’t had any laser treatments done. It just a “flushed” vs “not flushed” setting. But this is the kind of marketing tricks skin clinics nowadays are using. In summation: Lasers do not work well at all, and is certainly not a cure!

The good news is that most countries in the world have some sort of capitalism, which rewards those who give the most value to others. A saying in business is “innovate or die”. Meaning, if you do not create better services than before, someone else will. Skin clinics are making a great profit for now, using lasers, and customers keep coming back for more and more treatment, since they never get a satisfactory result. But at one point customers will see through this. Also, even though this this is a dermatological problem, other fields in medicine are doing substantial research, and can come up with solutions that can be useful for curing dermatological conditions. Resulting in dermatologist losing or going out of business, while other doctors or institutions, who are able to give real value to their consumers, will grow and get richer. It truly is pathetic how little dermatologists are able to do. We live in the 21th century and no one who does not want to should have to live with Rosacea, KPRF or any other sort of excessive facial redness. There should be cures for this, real cures, who gets rid of it completely and permanently.

Here is just some examples of medical and scientific innovations in different fields of medicine:  Gene editing has now been used on a human: https://futurism.com/first-time-scientists-used-gene-editing-inside-living-patient/ . Gene therapy has also been used to grow new skin, needed because of a genetic skin disease: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171108151607.htm . A type of blindness is being cured using stem cells: https://www.sciencealert.com/a-blind-woman-has-regained-sight-thanks-to-a-controversial-stem-cell-treatment . 3D-printing is being used for more and more body part transplantations: https://www.cio.com/article/3184733/healthcare/3d-printed-partial-liver-transplants-targeted-for-2020.html . Etc. 

The only skin condition I from time to time come across being researched is psoriasis. Other than that, dermatologists don’t seem interested in finding better cures, they are more interested in marketing and selling poor services; tricking people to get their laser treatments which doesn’t cure anything. Hopefully they will not be profitable for very long, as doctors and scientists within other fields are researching and creating better solutions that can be used on skin conditions as well.

For me the worst part about having chronic facial redness is the changes in color and heat of the skin (aka chronic blushing + flushing) that happens daily. Having to go from light pink to dark red in everyday is humiliating. And it is not that I find facial redness “ugly” or anything like that. It is just that when you are giving a presentation, asking someone on a date or just having a normal conversation with someone (etc.), you want to focus on that. Not having to deal with becoming a lobster in the face, creating an uncomfortable social situation for yourself and others. The best thing would of course be to have the redness completely gone, but even being at a constant maximum flush I would consider to be better. For that reason, I am considering the ETS-surgery. It is sad that people with excessive facial redness are left with so few options, and that destroying the nervous system (and thereby creating all kinds of side effects) is the only option so many seem to turn to. For now, I am hopeful that beta blockers will give an adequate result, but if not, the ETS surgery seems to be the only thing left to do. Of course, if I discover something else, I will let you guys know. I think a good thing many of us can do is contacting medical and scientific institutions, which are focused on innovations and new medical breakthroughs, and thereby letting them know the magnitude of facial redness related skin conditions. Also, and I am not kidding, investing in these types of companies to speed up the process of having new solutions available. It will probably be a great investment anyway, because when new solutions are created they will have hundreds of thousands of customers, customers dermatologists who have been more interested in profiting from poor services than innovating no longer will have, since they’re not going to have patent.

Note: There is more to these skin conditions than just facial redness. KPRF gives “nubs” on the skin - particularly on the upper arms, Rosacea can create pimples, etc. Since this is a forum focused in facial redness, I didn’t see the need to explain other traits of these skin conditions in depth. The facial redness (with the chronic flushing and blushing that comes with this) seems to be the most bothersome about these conditions for most people anyway.

 

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On 2017-12-04 at 2:41 AM, blushingman said:

 

Hey Blushingman, is there a way to contact you, like email or something? Not so much for questions but just chatting with someone who is also suffering from KPRF. My name is Simon and I'm 22 years old and live in Sweden.

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9 hours ago, nOefiLCR said:

Hey Blushingman, is there a way to contact you, like email or something? Not so much for questions but just chatting with someone who is also suffering from KPRF. My name is Simon and I'm 22 years old and live in Sweden.

Hello Simon :) 

You can contact me through personal messenger on this website. I check in pretty regularly. 

I unfortunately don't have time for just general chatting. But any suggestions, questions or thoughts regarding further progress are welcomed. 

Wish you all the best! :) 

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On 12/4/2017 at 1:18 AM, blushingman said:

Update

Just wanted to share of some of the new things that has worked. Also, it might be interesting to hear what didn’t work out of what I have tried. 

 

What didn’t work

Zoloft (Sertraline): This did little for both blushing and flushing for me. In addition to the previous stated side effects of SSRI/SNRI, it also made me sweat a lot more. Like in social situations, I would sweat from my face, and this has never happened before (And stopped once I stopped taking this drug).

Remeron (Mirtazapine): This was without a doubt the absolute worst antidepressant I tried. I got super tired, had to sleep a lot and I got an appetite like crazy. It was horrible to be on. Can’t say I noticed any improvement in blushing or flushing either.

Note that this was my experience. Everyone is biologically different, and particularly when it comes to antidepressants, people may respond different to different types of drugs. For me, Effexor (Venlafaxine) and Paxil (Paroxetine) worked quiet well for flushing, but not much for blushing.

 

What has worked – Long lasting Beta Blockers

I have tried 3 types now: Sotalol, Nebivolol and Bisoprolol. All have worked very well, and reduced the blushing by about 85-90 %. All beta blockers I have tried have worked very well, including Atenolol and Propranolol. The main thing for me now therefor is finding the type and dosage that works for an entire day, which has the least side effects.

The 1. generation beta blockers, which blocks both beta receptors, gives the most side effects for me. Mainly fatigue/tiredness, which I do not get to a very noticeable degree from a beta blocker which only blocks the beta-1 receptors (2. and some 3. generation). I have also found that these worked just as well for stopping blushing. Sotalol (type 1) did however also reduce flushing (not in heat, but when exercising) to a great degree. But flushing during exercise is not something that I care too much about. And it’s definitely not worth getting the extra side effects from this, just to reduce flushing during exercise.  

Note: The side effects are without a doubt less for the long-acting beta blockers, than for the short acting beta blockers (Like Propranolol and Atenolol). Also, after taking the beta blockers regularly, after 3-4 days they become even less noticeable. This you should bear in mind; if you get great side effects from occasionally taking beta blockers (Like I did, like when I was going to give a presentation) you will probably not get as big side effects when you start taking a long-acting beta blocker regularly. I think it takes 3-4 days for the body to adjust, and you should take the beta blocker approximately on the same time of the day (usually the mornings) everyday.  

So, for me, I will probably use either Nebivolol or Bisoprolol, since they work great and simultaneously give the least side effects. What is not great is that the dosage that works in the beginning of the day, does not reduce the blushing for the entire day. Therefor I will have to take a larger dosage than what I actually need, so that it can work for the entire day. This is due to their half life (10-12 hours). There is one other beta-1-blocker; Betaxolol, which has a greater half-life (14-22 hours) and should therefor work for an entire day with a lower dose. It is unfortunately not common to use this in my country, so I have not been able to try this yet. Also note: This is a 3. generation beta blocker, which can cause flushing due to vasodilation. But this is just one of many side effects that is listed, and does not at all mean that you have to get it. Nebivolol also can cause vasodilation, and I did not get any added flushing from this (And it was also one of the beta blockers that both worked the best for reducing blushing and had the least side effects). Therefore, you just have to try out different types for yourself. I will update if I get a chance to try it. Another interesting long lasting beta blocker is Nadolol, but note that this is a 1. generation beta blocker (with the possibility of more side effects).  

I wonder if you can use the result you have from beta blockers, to determine which T-levels should be cut/clamped when having the ETS/ESB-surgery. I mean, the different beta blocker types blocks different receptors of the sympathetic nervous system (Same part of the nervous system that gets destroyed during the surgery). Take me for instance, I only needed to block the beta-1 receptors (Worked for blushing, and gave the least side effects). Does this correspond to a specific T-level? Or perhaps there is no correlation? I don’t know, it was just something I thought about.

Hello blushingman all your posts make interesting reads. If I could just find a beta blocker that will give the same results as surgery and make my face pale most of the time I will be happy. Currently im red in most situations, talking to people, social situations, meeting family, excercise, out in the cold then to a hot room ( face also gets sore and hot ) etc ect

so im currently on propranolol and clonidine with no side effects im not convinced these are working combined although I think the clonidine helps in your experience what Beta blocker should I try next? I might want to keep the clonidine im looking for the answer as im hovering close to ETS

cheers pal

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On 4/12/2017 at 2:18 AM, blushingman said:

Update

Just wanted to share of some of the new things that has worked. Also, it might be interesting to hear what didn’t work out of what I have tried. 

 

What didn’t work

Zoloft (Sertraline): This did little for both blushing and flushing for me. In addition to the previous stated side effects of SSRI/SNRI, it also made me sweat a lot more. Like in social situations, I would sweat from my face, and this has never happened before (And stopped once I stopped taking this drug).

Remeron (Mirtazapine): This was without a doubt the absolute worst antidepressant I tried. I got super tired, had to sleep a lot and I got an appetite like crazy. It was horrible to be on. Can’t say I noticed any improvement in blushing or flushing either.

Note that this was my experience. Everyone is biologically different, and particularly when it comes to antidepressants, people may respond different to different types of drugs. For me, Effexor (Venlafaxine) and Paxil (Paroxetine) worked quiet well for flushing, but not much for blushing.

 

What has worked – Long lasting Beta Blockers

I have tried 3 types now: Sotalol, Nebivolol and Bisoprolol. All have worked very well, and reduced the blushing by about 85-90 %. All beta blockers I have tried have worked very well, including Atenolol and Propranolol. The main thing for me now therefor is finding the type and dosage that works for an entire day, which has the least side effects.

The 1. generation beta blockers, which blocks both beta receptors, gives the most side effects for me. Mainly fatigue/tiredness, which I do not get to a very noticeable degree from a beta blocker which only blocks the beta-1 receptors (2. and some 3. generation). I have also found that these worked just as well for stopping blushing. Sotalol (type 1) did however also reduce flushing (not in heat, but when exercising) to a great degree. But flushing during exercise is not something that I care too much about. And it’s definitely not worth getting the extra side effects from this, just to reduce flushing during exercise.  

Note: The side effects are without a doubt less for the long-acting beta blockers, than for the short acting beta blockers (Like Propranolol and Atenolol). Also, after taking the beta blockers regularly, after 3-4 days they become even less noticeable. This you should bear in mind; if you get great side effects from occasionally taking beta blockers (Like I did, like when I was going to give a presentation) you will probably not get as big side effects when you start taking a long-acting beta blocker regularly. I think it takes 3-4 days for the body to adjust, and you should take the beta blocker approximately on the same time of the day (usually the mornings) everyday.  

So, for me, I will probably use either Nebivolol or Bisoprolol, since they work great and simultaneously give the least side effects. What is not great is that the dosage that works in the beginning of the day, does not reduce the blushing for the entire day. Therefor I will have to take a larger dosage than what I actually need, so that it can work for the entire day. This is due to their half life (10-12 hours). There is one other beta-1-blocker; Betaxolol, which has a greater half-life (14-22 hours) and should therefor work for an entire day with a lower dose. It is unfortunately not common to use this in my country, so I have not been able to try this yet. Also note: This is a 3. generation beta blocker, which can cause flushing due to vasodilation. But this is just one of many side effects that is listed, and does not at all mean that you have to get it. Nebivolol also can cause vasodilation, and I did not get any added flushing from this (And it was also one of the beta blockers that both worked the best for reducing blushing and had the least side effects). Therefore, you just have to try out different types for yourself. I will update if I get a chance to try it. Another interesting long lasting beta blocker is Nadolol, but note that this is a 1. generation beta blocker (with the possibility of more side effects).  

I wonder if you can use the result you have from beta blockers, to determine which T-levels should be cut/clamped when having the ETS/ESB-surgery. I mean, the different beta blocker types blocks different receptors of the sympathetic nervous system (Same part of the nervous system that gets destroyed during the surgery). Take me for instance, I only needed to block the beta-1 receptors (Worked for blushing, and gave the least side effects). Does this correspond to a specific T-level? Or perhaps there is no correlation? I don’t know, it was just something I thought about.

Hey Blushingman

Again I must say it is informative to read your posts. I had the ets operation done about 15 years ago in Sweden. It helped, but did cure my facial blushing, only reduced it. So now Im taking atenolol and efexor 75 mg (venlafaxin). But I wanna try venlafaxin 37,5 mg and then one of the betablokkers you are taking about, either Nebivolol or Bisoprolol. How many mg do you take when you take your betablokkers and do you take both mornings and afternoons??

Have you ever thought of microdosing with LSD for facial blushing. I have read about it, and I am curious what it can do to facial blushing. Micro dosing is not about the high of the drugs, because it wont give you that. The downside is that it is hard to get (at least where I live), and you dont know the precise quality of the drug. Anyway just a thought. Thanks for posting. 

best regards

 

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Hey misterthomas
 

I am trying 5 mg * 2 per day (mornings and afternoon) of Nebivolol at the moment. I have not landed on a specific dosage or type of beta blocker yet. 

No, I have not considered LSD. If it worked and didn't create undesirable side effects, then of course it could be something to try. Given the legal status of it, I personally am not going to pursue this. 

Cheers :) 

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Hello, I'm from the RosaceaGroup forums but I recently came across some of your posts so I figured I would contribute with some of my insights and what has helped me. I also suffer from KPRF and its associated blushing/flushing issues. These are just my thoughts btw, I have no background in physiology or medicine so some if this might not make any sense lol.

First, I strongly believe that if you're struggling immensely with daily flushing symptoms that have driven you to the point of depression, that you should seriously consider talking to a doctor about SSRI medications. When I was at my lowest and at points contemplating suicide, I began taking Celexa (citalopram) in an effort to improve my condition. This medication helped dramatically in both reducing my flushing/blushing episodes, and reducing the anxiety I felt about going into situations where I could potentially flush. The medication wasn't a cure, as I would still flush in certain situations (mainly from cold weather or prolonged sun exposure), but it definitely helped to the point where I was no longer flushing daily. Unfortunately the medication also had the annoying side effect of reducing my libido. 

However, I decided to stop taking Celexa about a month ago because I was curious as to if I still really needed it. A couple days after stopping the medication I began noticing more random flushing episodes throughout the day...however they were different. I noticed the uncomfortable tingling feeling associated with flushing had returned. When taking Celexa, I would only feel a burning sensation in my cheeks, I would not feel any tingling or prickly feeling. However, even after stopping Celexa I haven't noticed any of the extreme flushing episodes that plagued me when I was at my worst. I'm flushing more than when I was on the meds, but I'm still not going super beet red. I'm wondering if the dilated vessels in my cheeks were able to slowly heal throughout the past year because they weren't being attacked with daily flushes anymore? Obviously they didn't heal completely since I still have redness, but I think its interesting that even off of the medication I'm still not getting as red as before.

This lead me to thinking further about that tingling/prickly feeling I now have feeling again when flushing. I'm assuming this is some sort of nerve issue and the medication somehow corrected these nerves from attacking the vessels in my cheeks. Does this indicate a problem with the entire nervous system, or just these specific nerves?  If so, did the problematic nerves cause the inflammation that lead to the dilation of these blood vessels in the first place, or did repeated flushing episodes cause these nerves to malfunction? 

Another interesting thing I've read is that a damaged skin barrier can cause sweat glands to malfunction which can also lead to nerve damage. I'd assume most KPRF/Rosacea sufferers don't sweat much around their face so I think this is also something to consider. After all, if sweat glands are actually damaged and unable to help the body cool itself in those areas, then the feeling of trapped heat is likely exactly what flushing could be described as.

If anyone has any experiences to add to this please share. I feel that this KPRF condition is becoming more prevalent than ever before...I literally see people with some form of it almost every day now.

 

 

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