Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  1. Hey Bob, Thank you so much for sharing your extremely poignant thoughts with me and other readers with regards to ETS. To take the time to write down your feelings was a great gesture. To begin, everybody's thoughts are most welcome and encouraged in this thread. Remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Nobody will be made to feel uncomfortable, but please try and be civil. As I do not frequent this forum often, I kindly ask Bob to watch out for this thread and make sure it doesn't get out of control. Thanks for that mate! ETS is a highly emotive subject as we all know, but I hope that we can all debate, discuss and shed some light on ways we can better educate those who are contemplating ETS and those who just want to be educated. Discuss whatever aspect you would like or are interested in knowing about, whether you are pro, anti or just sitting on the fence. As far as my thoughts go, most of how I feel is enclosed in my previous posts which you will find when you do a search. I don't want to repeat things, so if you are interested in knowing a little about my ETS "mentality", then please have a read. I have however added a bit more here in light of recent events and how they affected me. Can I just stress one thing before I get started. PLEASE, please, exhaust every single avenue before you embark down the ETS route and I do mean every avenue. There is enough info out there with regards to your respective available options, whether it be FB or HH etc, but if anyone wants a recap, just holler. Bob, I agree with absolutely everything you said in your last post, but I know we have very different views on how we should educate the masses and get the ETS message across, which of course is cool. Perhaps we will never agree or perhaps there is no right way, but it will make for an interesting discussion. So how do we convey information in a way that will be accepted and valued, without appearing controlling? For me personally, what needs to be remembered is that no matter how "scary" the surgery may sound to us, it isn't our role to scare others away from it. As I've mentioned before, to instill fear in another or intimidate, is in fact a form of manipulation and we definitely want to avoid that. This also includes making someone feel stupid for having made the decision to go through with ETS. To shame someone by questioning their intelligence and rationale, is unacceptable behaviour I think. Sure we may not agree, but in most cases, that person has travelled down a very long road, so to chide them and label them as 'foolhardy' is not fair. Now we all know that no one likes to be told what to do and this applies quite particularly to the young. I think if you try to rescue or help another person to be the way you believe they "should be'', then eventually you will experience people moving away from you if they no longer desire "to be fixed'' by your advice, solutions, or insights. This is the last thing you want, particularly if you are trying to reach the young ones. These people are going to go right on ahead and do what they want in spite of you, so care must be taken with them. I think as a group, we need to stop acting on the belief that we have more knowledge than others as to what is good for the person contemplating ETS. Only the person entertaining the thought of ETS knows what is best for them, how much they suffer and to what degree it affects their quality of life. Even if we do have a strong desire to protect, it is best to act cautiously. As a result if you strive to correct their thinking so that they can "see the light'' in your way, all you get is resentment and alienation. I think we need to develop a philosophy of "helping'' which emphasizes that what people need is emotional support and understanding of their feelings concerning ETS, rather than an attitude of dictatorship and a "don't do it, it will ruin your life" attitude. What happens if we do start telling everyone not to go through with ETS and that it will ruin their lives? As you know, if we work too hard at making sure that everything is the way it is supposed to be for everyone, then this overcontrolling behavior succeeds in disabling those people we are trying to educate and then things are never the way they are supposed to be. You never get what you really want when you are overcontrolling. I think one of the near impossible things to do, is to change a person's mind about something that they have their heart set on doing like KG. And is this even our right? The answer is of course no. The more you try to hold onto people and convert them to your views, the harder they will pull away or conversely, the weaker and more dependent on you they will become. I think it is better to become just a little less emotionally detached from them, give them the resources and let them find the path that is right for them. I think that this way, they still can relate to you in a free and open way, without resentment or anger. Some will say that ETS saved their life, some will say it ruined their life and then there are those that are not changed by it. Bob said 'How fortunate I was that someone shocked me to my senses and convinced me not to have the procedure'. I however, thank god everyday that I had the operation. But let's say that you decide to have the surgery. Imagine the very worst case scenario. Ask yourself if you would be able to cope with this. How would you feel if you were unlucky enough to experience all the adverse symptoms people talk about? Play it out in your head. Afterall, if you do go ahead with the surgery, you need to be prepared for the worst...but of course hope for the best. Only you can weigh up the pros and cons. This is a massive topic to discuss and this post is just to kick things off. Please, everyone, join in!
  2. Duckie, life is so long. If he loves you as you deserve to be loved and vice versa, then anything is possible. Life is full of crazy, unexpected twists and turns, particularly where love is concerned. Never give up hope because if it is in your destiny and it is meant to be, it will happen, no matter the distance between you. I trully believe this. Can you tell I'm a hopeless romantic? But that is a good thing I think :wink:
  3. Duckie, The same thing happened to me, well similar that is. Long story short, I thought I'd found the love of my life, but when I became disabled by severe neuropathic rosacea and FB, she decided that I wasn't 'fun' anymore. I backed out of one too many social engagements, I was in pain, I probably wasn't the easiest person to live with and voila, they're out of there. We'd been together for 5 years. It was actually almost a relief when she left because then I only had myself to worry about. Illness can be the true test of a relationship. They don't say 'do you promise to love so and so in sickness and in health' blah blah, for nothing. It's hard, when you love someone and who you believe will stand by you no matter what, who then suddenly decides that it is all too much for them. And in many ways it probably is, but isn't that the time you expect the most love and compassion from your partner? Which obviously means they're not the ones of course. Strong women are beautiful women. Stay true to yourself and fill your life with things that fulfill you and give you gratification. If a man comes along, great, but if he doesn't, then you're ok too. There are a lot of men, me included who love strong women. Luckily for me now, my business means that I travel a lot of the time which is a great distraction. Perhaps one day though I will entertain the thought of a serious relationship again. Duckie and Laura, Having read your posts, I think you are both very cool girls indeed. Oh and I mustn't forget Miss Lavish. How remiss of me.
  4. John, Well put mate! I probably should have taken a deep breath before I contributed to this particular thread. I put myself in KG's place and it really upset me. But of course KG handled it like a pro. Sometimes it takes somebody who isn't in the mix to point these things out, so thank you John. I do however strongly stand by everything I have ever said about my views and opinions regarding ETS. And yes, I have totally let this whole thing go, providing Bob goes easy on me :wink:
  5. Bob, The reason my last posts were in April is because like many who have had a favourable ETS outcome, I have moved on with my life. I saw that KariGrace was having her op and wanted to pass on my well wishes. Well a healthy debate would be very constructive. However, that would mean that I would have to pick a side and I doubt I would know whether to be pro or con ETS. I could debate both sides equally. What we need to do is educate people. Give them the tools to make a balanced and informed decision for themselves. My grievance has been that I totally object to people instilling fear in others as a way to get a message across. Nobody can decide if ETS is the right choice for you. It is such a personal thing and you will read that in all my posts. So despite what you might think Bob, I am not anti the anti ETS people, just anti to how you are getting your message across. This is not a decision that can be made by another on your behalf. Demanding that people do what you want them to do is really not acceptable. This is all my own point of view of course. You have to remember also Bob, that you are guilty of many of the things you have accused me of, so let bygones be bygones and let's move on. Just one final thing though, I don't think name calling is very mature Bob. I am not a muppet, so if you want us to have a mature relationship let's do away with the put downs. Peace Ps Great to see that you are up and about KariGrace. I wish you all the best.
  6. A lovely post Irishrose and those that followed. Miss Lavish, you are quite the minx aren't you?! I am a boy alas......or fortunately, whichever the case may be. Is it Lavish by name, Lavish by nature? Either way, I find you enchanting. And I bet your pussy is lovely too. But seriously Miss Lavish, your posts REALLY touched me. I think your advice and caring was exactly what KG needed to hear. Your warmth, wisdom and understanding were truly heartfelt and compassionate and this meant so much to me on a personal level. I hope others understand how important it is to nurture those who have come straight out of ETS. Bob, if you wish to continue attacking me, at least read some of my past posts, which you obviously could not be bothered doing :roll: I have no intention of fighting with you, so I will leave things at that and hopefully with time you will let go of this resentment you have towards me. Miss Lavish is right. Animosity and personal grudges which result in these 'internet wars', are never a healthy thing. I'm actually quite reasonable if you give me a chance. http://www.esfbchannel.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2108&highlight= http://www.esfbchannel.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2198&highlight= http://www.esfbchannel.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2106&highlight= Peace.
  7. Agenda? Perhaps I'm missing something. If you could explain this to everyone, I would be most appreciative. What I said was true. Go back and read all the horrible comments that were directed at KG. In this delicate post surgery time, I personally thought its was disgraceful. If you have a personal issue with me, which you obviously have, then PM me. And if you think words of encouragement and well wishes for a forum member is classified as 'stirring up trouble', then I'm gob smacked. Your logic makes no sense, so I can only assume that your attack on me stems from some other deeper anger you have. And you call me malicious? Here we go again :roll:
  8. KariGrace, I am so happy for you! I haven't visited the forum for ages and you will find that once you begin to revel in your new life, you too will find the need to visit less and less. I concur entirely with Miss Lavish, very wise advice indeed. You need time to rediscover, readjust and rest. Your new life awaits you and what an exciting time it will be, but you need to give yourself time to heal both physically and psychologically. And you need to stay away from all the negativity on this forum. Having lived with HH and FB for so long, means that you have quite an adjustment to make, but it will be a wonderful time for you. Your future looks simply amazing me thinks. As for the people who pounced on you so soon after your op, well you should all be ashamed of yourselves. What a terrible way to treat someone who has shared so much with you all and who now needs love, good wishes, understanding and caring. And I always thought that people on support groups gave advice and made time for those who needed it, out of the goodness of their hearts. To rub it in KariGrace's face and make her feel guilty for the time you spent advising her is just horrible. Shame on you all. I toast you a wonderful new beginning to life KG. God bless and may beautiful things continue to happen to you! Ps I am so happy for Kiyose too. Good luck with your new life Kiyose and may all your dreams come true. It sounds like you are having a wonderful time.
  9. Steve, If you read my very few posts about ETS in the appropriate section, which I hope you have done, then you will see that I have been extremely cautious and responsible with my wording. When your life has hit rock bottom, when you have exhausted every avenue, when all you crave is a life without pain and suffering, then yes, entertaining the idea of ETS does become an option.....a very extreme and final option. The problem is that I do believe for a very select few, ETS may be a life saver as was the case with myself. I don't know where I would be now if I hadn't gone through with it. I know I will be stoned for saying so but that has never stopped me from speaking my mind. It is impossible to talk rationally and productively about this subject because forum members instantly assume you are a recruiter or similar. Hence you deny other genuine sufferers the first hand information they crave. If you haven't had ETS, then I doubt you can give advice. I do not approve of giving out medical advice at the best of times. This is best left to surgeons etc. I only offer personal information. It's impossible to know what it is like to go through the journey that is ETS. Now if that stirs up Bob Bear's cult following, I really don't care. What I do care about is that the people who are entertaining the thought of ETS receive first hand, accurate and unbiased information. Dismissing these members by saying 'Don't do it, it will ruin your life', is a very narrow minded and very uneducated thing to say. I care about the people who may make this life changing decision. They deserve the information that ETS patients can give them, good, bad and ugly. Go back, read every word I've written and tell me if I have pushed the idea of ETS on anybody. OR have I just been honest about my personal experience. This is a taboo subject for many on here and other forums. My goal is education, not avoidance, but it's not going to happen on this forum with the attitudes already displayed. That's sad. I guess I'm glad that I don't live in Sweden then.
  10. Hi there, My testosterone levels are all normal too. I had them checked twice. I had T2 and T3 clamped. Like all of you, I have some minor fatigue problems. I'm 32.
  11. Please don't feign interest in my condition. If you want to compare battle scars send me a PM. Everybody has their own horror stories to tell and we know it. Nobody's pain is less or more than another's pain. There is very little I haven't tried, afterall, I have had ETS :roll:
  12. Mate, I don't know what your problem is but please back off. I never suggested that anybody should treat both T2 and T3 for blushing. Please go back and read my post properly. I only expressed my personal experience which was clamping of both T2 and T3. MY EXPERIENCE :roll: ETS is a gamble for the most part. There is no black and white answer. Drawing on the personal experiences of others, helps us ascertain patterns, but no definite conclusions. People who THINK they know what it is like to have ETS, add to the confusing information available. And yes you are absolutely right. My pet peeves definitely include people with your type of attitude.
  13. No need to be childish. It was a suggestion, not an order :roll:
  14. Perhaps start a new thread specifically with regards to your Botox questions. It will make it easier for new members to find information.
  15. This thread was started by Yep with specific regards to ETS surgery, not botox.
  • Create New...